PAT Interview #1: I Got Rid Of Guilt That Was Never There
Psychedelic Assisted Therapy Interview #1
Much has been said about the therapeutic benefits of psychedelic-assisted therapy (PAT) but without participant details. So, seeing as how I write in the healing and mental health space, I want to share the interviews of people who tried PAT, what they got out of it, what their experience was like, and why traditional therapy didn’t work (if they tried it at all).
The reason I want to share these stories is because 100% of the population can’t be wrong. Of all the people I know who’ve undergone PAT, I can’t think of one who ultimately said, “it didn’t work.” Sure, there are some people who require multiple rounds of PAT or different types of medicine because the same medicine doesn’t work for everybody in the same way. But in the end, they got the healing they needed.
And these people aren’t all veterans. I think a common misconception is that PAT is mainly for treating combat veterans with PTSD, and while they certainly are a target demographic, veterans aren’t the only ones benefitting from PAT.
For this interview, I’ll share the experience of a civilian named “Pat”—a name rightly chosen because that’s what we’re talking about: psychedelic-assisted therapy (PAT). Some details have been changed to protect the identity of the participant.
Jeff: Pat, thanks for being willing to share your psychedelic experience. Could you tell us what made you want to share?
Pat: Yup, sure thing. And thank you for doing this. I think it’ s important for guys like me who want to share but can’t for fear of their workplace finding out because, who knows, maybe somebody reading this will get a bug in their ear to want to try psychedelics and change their life. So, why do I want to share? Why do I want to talk about me? I really don’t, actually. But like I said, when you take these medicines, you realize that “it” isn’t just about you; that there’s an interconnectivity that ties us all together. That’s what happens when your ego dissolves because the ego is there to create separation, distinction, “uniqueness”, which I put in air quotes because the irony of the ego being unique is that everyone has one, so how “unique” is it, really?
J: That’s a good point, I never thought of it like that.
P: Dude, just wait ‘til I get into the meat of this. It’ll blow your mind.
J: So, what compelled you to try psychedelics?
P: Because I was on a road to nowhere, quite honestly. I left my employer without a plan—I had to leave because I fucking hated it. Well, I take that back. I did have a plan, it was just a shitty plan, more like hope and a hail mary than a concrete plan. So I left my employer while also going through divorce and moving.
J: Wow. That’s a lot of stuff at once.
P: Yeah, exactly—and that was the problem. Well, it was one of the problems but it was a big one. What I ultimately realized was that they were all distractions so I could avoid the discomfort of being myself because trauma alters our capacity to feel safe within ourselves. I never realized before my psychedelic experience just how much my childhood played into my life decisions. Like, for example, I had great parents but my dad was old school and always pushed me into sports or some other activity that he thought I needed but wasn’t necessarily what I wanted. And what I learned from that was to ignore what I wanted; that I wasn’t enough. It bred this inner drive to be at the top of the game in everything I do, which is why I saw so much success in finance, but it created disconnection within myself. Banking on Wall Street is a complete fucking nightmare. Nightmare! It does a job on your relationships because, well, you can’t have any. I mean, of course you can but it takes a special woman to put up with you if you’re working 70 hour+ weeks. I found finance to be great if you have a lot to prove, which is why I was so successful.
J: That sounds like us in the military—needing a strong spouse to play both roles while we’re gone. You also mentioned something that Gabor Maté talks about, it’s a dilemma that every child faces, which is the struggle between attachment to their parents and authenticity with themselves. Children will always choose their parents because they’re their parents and their attachment is that strong. But, it comes at a cost because if your mom or dad is telling you you shouldn’t be sad, for example, and you’re crying, well, that’s a contradiction between how you feel (authenticity) and what you’re hearing (that you shouldn’t feel sad). We choose attachment to the detriment of ourselves—and our parents think they’re helping us but they’re actually hurting. Sorry, didn’t mean to steal the show. You were talking about the strain 70+ hours puts on relationships. Sounds familiar.
P: No, not at all! What you said makes perfect sense. That sort of came up in my experience just not in those words. But regarding the workload, yes, I think that’s why we probably get along so well—we’re cut from similar cloths.
J: Agreed. I think that’s why a lot of team guys go into finance after the Teams, actually. Of course, they want to make a lot of money to make up for all the years they didn’t, but they’re also surrounded by similar types: aggressive, problem-solvers, no bullshit.
P: Yup.
J: Okay, so you’re caught with this trifecta of new work, divorce, moving. Then what?
P: I tried a new job only to discover I hated it. Then you tack on the stress of being a dad while trying to establish yourself in a new company and you have the recipe for a breakdown, which ultimately compelled me to consider psychedelic medicine because nothing else was working. I had a lot of parenting guilt for not spending as much time with my daughter as I “should have” (I put that in air quotes because there is no preset amount of time). But I had to pay alimony, I had to pay child support, and I had to feed myself. And here’s my daughter wanting to play dress up--WITH ME, ONLY because it was my time to have her--and I’m freaking the fuck out over work. It was a lot of stress and I felt so guilty about it because I couldn't spend the time with her that I wanted to.
J: Did you know it was guilt at first? Did you try anything before PAT, like therapy or anything? Sometimes guilt can manifest in maladaptive ways before one settles down and acknowledges it as guilt.
P: Yeah, I drank—a lot. That definitely helped, but it was short term, I knew that. I was just numbing myself. I knew it wasn’t a long term solution, neither was the therapy I was doing. I had health insurance and mental health was included, so I spoke with a therapist for about six months before I got fed up and decided it was a waste of time.
J: Well, you’re not alone in that regard. Therapy is great for some people but not helpful for others (and I say this as I finish my schooling to become a therapist).
P: Yeah, that was something my PAT therapist said, that some people can go through a lifetime of therapy, they can even go through 10 lifetimes of therapy, and never see the results that psychedelics can produce in a weekend.
J: That’s amazing. SO amazing. Well, let’s hear about it—your journey. What did you do, how was it, and what did you learn?
P. Oh boy. Well, I did MDMA, which is a heart opener. The doctor gave me MDMA based on my symptoms.
J: Which were?
P: I was just very closed off. I compartmented everything and never addressed them—and this started in childhood, I learned. I always told myself that I just “executed”—that I did whatever I had to do and just moved on to the next. Well, that was BS. That’s what I thought I was doing but what I was really doing was burying things deep down. I was just very much in my head.
J: Gotcha. I’m sure that’s common among finance bros. It definitely is among military.
P: Yeah. I think it’s common among most men our age because we were raised by fathers who were raised the same way, and by moms who were raised not to speak up—not all moms, of course, but I think the baby boomer generation generally had very clear gender roles that nobody crossed. I mean, I don’t know about your dad, but mine isn’t one to just sit there and talk about his feelings.
J: Ha! No, mine isn’t either. And that’s also the problem, too, right? I think that close-guardedness applies to most guys, though. And to be clear, I’m not saying we all need to circle up and love bomb each other but it is very common for guys to hold things in without asking for help because we, as a society, value The Hero, right? The person who can do it all himself. I’ve certainly been guilty of that and, personally, it’s taken a lot of work to reverse that course.
P: Yeah, it’s not easy. It takes a lot of self-assurance to undo what you knew, or believed, to be “true.” It’s also scary because there’s a lack of control in relying on other people, right? Anyway, I did the MDMA and it was eye opening, to say the least. It wasn’t like what people think: you don't just pop a pill and go rave or go for a walk—or do anything, really. What separates PAT from, like, hippies doing drugs in the 60s is set and setting. I’m sure you’ve heard this. You want to do it [psychedelics] in a safe setting, free of distractions, and you want to set an intention, which is what you want to get out of it. Ideally you have somebody guide you, too—somebody who can help you make sense of the wild shit you experience. The goal isn’t to just sit there and get high. The goal is to address a therapeutic benefit, and for me, it was getting rid of the guilt I had as a father.
J: Did it work?
P: Uh, yeah. It worked—and then some. Jeff, it was incredible. I mean, incredible. I had so many insights about myself, about life, that were so…freeing. They say, “the truth shall set you free” and I’ve found that to be true because I don’t feel bogged down anymore. I feel physically lighter, I had a pain in the back of my neck for a long time that suddenly disappeared—and that’s something else I learned. I could identify where I keep certain emotions in my body.
J: Wow, that’s so cool. Tell me more about that—about the emotions in the body.
P: I could basically map out where I held negative emotion in my body. Like, guilt was in the back of my neck, fear in my gut just left of my belly button and my lower back, shame in the center of my chest. And when I noticed them they all disappeared—all the pain in those areas vanished.
J: Holy cow. And then, regarding the guild, how’s that now?
P: It’s not there. And not only is it gone, but I realized it was never there to begin with. Let that sink in for a second. The guilt that I “felt” for so long, was never even there; it was just a manifestation of the mind—all those emotions were. Now, whenever I feel anger or frustration or something negative, I just go back to that moment of realizing that guilt was never there and I remember the physical sensation I felt in the moment it left: I felt expansiveness in my chest, like a light, airy feeling. I’ll never forget it. And that’s enough to remind me that whatever negative emotion I’m feeling right now, isn’t actually there. It’s my mind creating the discomfort that manifests emotionally. I mean, I had a lot of insights, like how the universe works, why people entered my life—more than we really have time for. But realizing guilt as a manifestation of the mind was huge.
J: Wow, that’s awesome. Well, I’m happy for you, man. You seem much lighter, much happier. Before we finish up, is there anything else you want people to know?
P: I’d say have an open mind. Psychedelics aren’t what people think they were in the 60s. There’s real benefit to them. I wouldn’t be the person I am sitting here without them. With all that guilt gone, I feel like more doors are opening; I don’t feel so weighted down and I’m definitely a happier person.
J: Awesome, thanks Pat.
P: Thank you.
J: So, what do you do now? What’s next?
P: What’s next is integrating my takeaways into daily life. I’ve found this to be the hard part. Anybody can sit back and let the medicine take them, but it takes work to make those lessons a reality. You just gotta find what works for you. For me, my aha! came during my experience, I learned movement is my medicine. So, I try to be more active during the day. All those years of sitting on my ass didn’t help me physically, so movement—whether it’s in the gym, on the yoga mat, outside on a walk, playing with my daughter—is my thing. I also found journaling to be really helpful. It’s a great way to just brain dump all my thoughts and try to make sense of them. And if I don’t want to make sense of them, that’s fine too. At least they’re there for me to revisit later.
J: Yeah I agree. I workout five times a week for an hour, do yoga at least three times a week, and journal three to five times a week. Breathwork and meditation are good, too—I meditate daily.
P: Yes! I started meditating, too, actually. Love it. Before, I was never even open to it because I couldn’t sit still and thought it was for hippies, but I realized that was just more bullshit I was telling myself. I realized I was too insecure to try because of that stigma. Man, what a lifesaver meditation actually is.
J: That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing, Pat! I could dork out on meditation more with you but maybe we’ll save that for another time.
P: (Lol) sounds good.
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PAT Interview #2: Psychedelics Helped Me Feel Love For The First Time
PAT Interview #3: Psychedelics Showed Me My Generational Sexual Trauma